枪友会

 找回密码
 立即注册
搜索
热搜: 入门 指南 攻略
楼主: qqq

[CCW] 上次摩托党追停并砸亚裔车事件,如果有枪该出吗?

  [复制链接]

55

主题

4282

帖子

3万

积分

元老枪友

Rank: 4

积分
30978

NRA终身会员三枪客携枪执照

发表于 2015-1-16 16:00 | 显示全部楼层
pandamalone 发表于 2015-1-10 16:01
关于这点,我选的是当对方开始试图开门拉人就直接开枪打.出于下面两方面的考虑:

1. 按佛州州法,车和房是一 ...

分析得非常好!
回复

使用道具 举报

78

主题

786

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
16506
发表于 2015-2-9 15:55 | 显示全部楼层
在NH的话,法律指明,displaying or producing a firearm本身并不算deadly force,特别地:

"II-a. A person who responds to a threat which would be considered by a reasonable person as likely to cause serious bodily injury or death to the person or to another by displaying a firearm or other means of self-defense with the intent to warn away the person making the threat shall not have committed a criminal act."
回复

使用道具 举报

89

主题

1604

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
18929

三枪客认证教员携枪执照

发表于 2015-4-28 04:39 | 显示全部楼层
纽约是castle law state 所以在对方试图进入车里的时候,可以自卫,没问题。
回复

使用道具 举报

89

主题

1604

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
18929

三枪客认证教员携枪执照

发表于 2015-4-28 04:47 | 显示全部楼层
我们俄亥俄是要不不掏枪要不开枪打得

Why brandishing, shooting to wound, and warning shots are BAD ideas





For every bit of good advice out there about self defense, there are at least 10 pieces of bad advice.

Some of the very worst advice is about how to avoid the legal fallout of self defense by using a firearm in a non-lethal way, such as brandishing, shooting to wound rather than to kill, and firing one or more warning shots to scare off an attacker.

On the surface, these ideas seem to make sense. After all, why kill someone if you can end a confrontation in some other way? The problem is that besides being in many cases tactically unwise, the idea of introducing a firearm into a situation before you're actually in fear of death or great bodily harm can lead to serious legal troubles.

Perhaps the best explanation for this comes from Ken Hanson's book The Ohio Guide to Firearm Laws, Fourth Edition, pages 76-77. While written for Ohio gun owners, you should consider taking Ken's advice to heart no matter where you live.


Prosecutors have another term for warning shots: attempted felonious assault, improper discharge of a firearm etc. Shooting someone in the leg rather than center mass is similarly misguided and will not evade serious felony charges. Similarly, pulling out a gun just to "defuse the situation" is a legal non-starter. Do not be tempted to do this. If the gun comes out of the holster, the gun owner had better be justified in immediately employing it fully. There is no such thing as a warning shot or shooting to wound. This will be construed as a miss, bad marksmanship and perhaps even attempted murder.

This author understands the theory that the presence of a firearm might eliminate a confrontation. However, the opposite is equally true. For illustration purposes, assume the following: Someone was rudely and dangerously cutoff on a street, the horn blast that logically followed developed into the "cutter" getting out of the car to go yell at the "cuttee." The "cutter" does not display anything other than bare hands. Unfortunately, "cuttee" then displayed his handgun in the honest belief that it would avert/end the confrontation. Bad move.

First, no threat of imminent serious physical harm or death had been made, thus the person who took out the handgun did not have any legal justification for using lethal force. Second, the "cuttee" has escalated the situation: Within his own car, without any threat of serious physical harm or death, he removed a handgun from a holster. This action clearly, in this circumstance, could be construed as a threat. Would the "cutter" now be justified in drawing a handgun of their own and shooting the "cuttee," assuming it wouldn't violate a duty to retreat? This scenario will always present more questions than answers, and the gun owner is going to be playing against long odds if he brandishes a firearm in a non-lethal situation.

Removing a handgun from a holster, or even possibly just uncovering and indicating the presence of a handgun, can be considered a hostile act and will be considered a criminal act. As the old saying goes, an armed society is a polite society, and people do not need to be waving guns around to accomplish this. IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE YOUR HANDGUN OUT OF A HOLSTER, YOU HAD BETTER BE LEGALLY JUSTIFIED IN USING IT IMMEDIATELY.

Readers, students and the general public never like this answer, but I assure you it is an accurate answer under Ohio law and has withstood the test of time and appellate cases. Any deliberate action on your part that introduces lethal force into the encounter in a manner that makes the other person aware of the lethal force, IS THE USE OF LETHAL FORCE. If you make reference to lethal force, show lethal force, hold lethal force in your hand etc., those actions are simply an alternative use of lethal force, short of pulling the trigger. If you are in a non-lethal encounter, and have used lethal force, even in this round-about, alternate way, you have escalated the encounter and will have difficulties proving your self-defense case.

In short, don't draw your firearm until you honestly believe you are in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. And if that is truly your belief, you don't have the leisure of brandishing, shooting to wound, or firing a warning shot.

At that crucial moment, you should do what you've been trained to do: stop the attack by shooting your attacker center mass until the danger is gone.

Then, if you end up in a courtroom, you can honestly and with conviction look the jury in the eyes and say, "I feared for my life. I had no choice."

连接: http://www.secondcalldefense.org ... shots-are-bad-ideas

评分

参与人数 1子弹 +50 收起 理由
bruce + 50 很给力!

查看全部评分

回复

使用道具 举报

40

主题

754

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
10013

三枪客携枪执照

发表于 2015-6-5 06:42 | 显示全部楼层
@oskarlre Very useful piece of knowledge. The hard part is how to defuse an intensive situation without pulling out your firearm when you carry one, especially you are in great disadvantage in verbal argument.
暂停征棹,聊共饮离樽
回复

使用道具 举报

5

主题

460

帖子

5152

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
5152
发表于 2015-6-5 07:52 | 显示全部楼层
Bodago 发表于 2015-6-5 06:42
@oskarlre Very useful piece of knowledge. The hard part is how to defuse an intensive situation with ...

原来上课学的AOJ原则,简洁易记,

https://www.useofforce.us/3aojp/

这个例子中AOJ俱备。

回复

使用道具 举报

114

主题

1222

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

what is the perfect ccw?

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
10979
发表于 2015-6-5 08:40 | 显示全部楼层
qqq 发表于 2015-1-7 11:02
拔枪的顾虑是摩托党基本上人人都有枪,对射被击毙的可能性很大。

这个是最主要的问题  人太多还是要尽量忍  如果对方是两三个人就完全不同了  
回复

使用道具 举报

463

主题

6261

帖子

5万

积分

管理员

懂的不多,不懂的不说

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
51334

开坛元勋NRA终身会员三枪客认证教员

发表于 2015-6-8 23:38 | 显示全部楼层
qqq 发表于 2015-1-7 11:02
拔枪的顾虑是摩托党基本上人人都有枪,对射被击毙的可能性很大。

这个也看州吧?德州的会,NY的摩托党会天天带枪飙车?
何惧风吹雨打?
我有如细草漂流在海上。
再大的波浪能耐我何?
我在浪尖,或在风中!
回复

使用道具 举报

61

主题

2375

帖子

2万

积分

元老枪友

Rank: 4

积分
20279
发表于 2015-6-16 20:47 | 显示全部楼层
那群牲口里边不是有警察么,你出枪死得更快, 而且罪名弄不好会扣到你头上
回复

使用道具 举报

73

主题

294

帖子

6499

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
6499

三枪客

 楼主| 发表于 2015-6-17 11:47 | 显示全部楼层
happydad 发表于 2015-6-8 23:38
这个也看州吧?德州的会,NY的摩托党会天天带枪飙车?

是滴是滴,很多摩托党都是由退伍军人和警官组成,不要说带枪,就是很多禁止普通平民CCW的地方,这些人都可以带枪。
回复

使用道具 举报

463

主题

6261

帖子

5万

积分

管理员

懂的不多,不懂的不说

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
51334

开坛元勋NRA终身会员三枪客认证教员

发表于 2015-6-18 00:20 | 显示全部楼层
qqq 发表于 2015-6-17 11:47
是滴是滴,很多摩托党都是由退伍军人和警官组成,不要说带枪,就是很多禁止普通平民CCW的地方,这些人都 ...

看来警匪本是一家,只看有牌没牌。
何惧风吹雨打?
我有如细草漂流在海上。
再大的波浪能耐我何?
我在浪尖,或在风中!
回复

使用道具 举报

32

主题

417

帖子

3131

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3131
发表于 2015-7-13 19:03 | 显示全部楼层
qqq 发表于 2015-6-17 11:47
是滴是滴,很多摩托党都是由退伍军人和警官组成,不要说带枪,就是很多禁止普通平民CCW的地方,这些人都 ...

果然,不少退役军警基本到最后都是社会负担……PMC这种职业能解决一部分为危机了
水可载舟,亦可赛艇
天荒地老蛤不老,我为长者续一秒
众人续命蛤不老,再为长者续一秒
Enhancing your zhuangbility throughout Toadlism.
回复

使用道具 举报

5

主题

47

帖子

1143

积分

中级枪友

Rank: 1

积分
1143
发表于 2015-7-24 12:07 | 显示全部楼层
这种情况亮枪不是给人当靶子打么

我们假定每把枪都是load的是不是也该假定每个人都是carry的?
回复

使用道具 举报

50

主题

952

帖子

8818

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
8818

三枪客携枪执照

发表于 2015-8-19 23:06 | 显示全部楼层
要我的话出不出枪应该不一定, 但我一定不会选一条最后自己必须要停下来的路。 可能会撞他们。

那种情况一旦出枪, 局面会完全失去控制。 人在生死关头应该不会考虑那么多法律的问题。 结果就是街头枪战。开车的被乱枪打死。
回复

使用道具 举报

2

主题

82

帖子

3242

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3242

携枪执照

发表于 2016-2-5 14:46 | 显示全部楼层
When Can I Display My Firearm In Self Defense? - Texas

https://youtu.be/uu-ShQ7EWbk
回复

使用道具 举报

267

主题

4889

帖子

5万

积分

国宝枪友

Rank: 5Rank: 5

积分
50706

NRA终身会员开坛元勋

发表于 2016-7-24 14:55 | 显示全部楼层
Alwayslikethis 发表于 2015-7-24 12:07
这种情况亮枪不是给人当靶子打么

我们假定每把枪都是load的是不是也该假定每个人都是carry的? ...

笑话。大街上你随便拉一个人,他身上带枪的概率是多少?知道什么叫先下手为强吗?这位陆虎哥们还活着是因为有路人的帮助,Reginald Denny就没这么好的命了。
如果都随身带枪了,什么时候应该用什么时候不应该用还没有想清楚,那还是带个烧火棍吧,还轻点。

回复

使用道具 举报

897

主题

1万

帖子

10万

积分

管理员

少林寺驻武当山办事处大神父上校政委王喇嘛

Rank: 9Rank: 9Rank: 9

积分
101927

开坛元勋NRA终身会员三枪客携枪执照

发表于 2016-7-25 07:04 | 显示全部楼层
这个问题有个先决条件,就是假设匪类都是一样的“勇猛”。然而实际上并非如此。像拥枪率高的南方州,摩托党也要很小心对方是否有枪,并不会上来大大咧咧的砸车拉门,因为拉车门的动作就已经是life threatening了。匪类疯狂也不等于傻,不像纽约那等禁枪州,匪徒疯狂是因为知道大多数p民并没有带枪,所以才敢如此
"When You're Up To Your Nose In Shit, Keep Your Mouth Shut" -Jack Beauregard
回复

使用道具 举报

397

主题

3619

帖子

2万

积分

元老枪友

Rank: 4

积分
25539

三枪客

发表于 2016-7-25 10:16 | 显示全部楼层
Qingshi 发表于 2015-1-7 16:38
你这个说的有道理。 做好心理准备很重要。 要预设好自己何时开枪的情景。

说个CCW教官说的他自己拔枪的 ...

贊同這冷靜的老頭兒。
回复

使用道具 举报

28

主题

175

帖子

3904

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3904
发表于 2016-10-15 15:00 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 markboss 于 2016-10-15 15:07 编辑

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE.
The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

德州的法律,并不是拔枪就一定要射的,只要as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

Mark Firearm 马克武器,美国德州达拉斯地区全自动机枪射击体验,以及武器,持枪证培训机构。

我们的网站是 www.markgun.com
回复

使用道具 举报

33

主题

3046

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15880
发表于 2016-10-19 14:02 | 显示全部楼层
明显故意开车轧人,说是看见摩托车人多害怕,纯是借口。还好意思考虑开枪。
回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

触屏版|枪友会

GMT-8, 2019-5-25 04:07 , Processed in 0.076745 second(s), 21 queries .

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表