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[枪械知识] 全自动靶场ar vs ak 的报告, ak 打40k-80k没问题

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发表于 2015-5-30 22:11 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223921

Default Some hard truths from ACTUAL real world testing of AK's
These are an aggregate of some pertinent info posted in a couple threads on another site, this is info from Henderson Defense in Vegas, they run a large full-auto shooting range, where you can rent all manner of fun-switch rifles, AK's, AR's, MP5's etc. This is true testing, unlike most of the nonsense posted to youtube and failbook . The portions in bold print are my doing, just wanted to underscore them as particularly important.

Some Arsenal fans may want to NOT read this as it sheds some good light on that "buy once, cry once" bullshit some yowl about while trying to crap on WASR's, also Yugo guys as it's adding to some concerns about the recent N-pap imports.
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"I've read a couple threads about "abusing" AK's and I haven't seen anything that's "real world" abuse."

"We are shooting close to 400,000 rounds on the range monthly right now."

"The AK is the most reliable"

"Every single stamped receiver has suffered from a cracked trunion. This includes Saiga, Arsenal (Bulgarian), Norinco (Chinese), Arsenal (Russian stamped), WASR, Hungarian, Polish (vintage kits), Yugo (vintage and PAP-series) and new Polish (from Royal Tiger imports). "

"US (Century), Bulgarian and Chinese milled receivers have yet to fail. "

" We have yet to shoot out a factory WASR barrel."

"We have WASR's on the line that have last OVER two and half years and the barrels are NOT shot out and they continue to run. We installed new bolts to bring headspace back up but they keep running. "

"This may sound crazy but it's fair to say that they finally suffer a catastrophic failure (cracked trunion) at 80,000-100,000 rounds. Also, we have WASR's that have suffered a catastrophic failure and we just pull out the old trunion and barrel, grab one from a parts kit, re-rivet, re-barrel and get them up and running. "

"The one thing I can say about the AK's is that they hold up MUCH BETTER than the RPD's. I thought for sure that RPD's would last so much longer because of the milled receivers but the receivers only last about half the life (if that) of a Romanian WASR."

"We only used the N-PAP's on the range and they failed miserably in a short amount of time. It appears, in my opinion, that the receivers were not heat-treated correctly and they cracked. "

"After the other N-PAP's had issues we pulled them all. I am in no way saying that all Serbian weapons are prone to this or the older Yugos are of the same quality. I just know what happened to our rifles and we can't risk the liability of a catastrophic failure on the range. I know Century imports them and don't cast any fault on them either because all of the WASR's we get from them have all been home-run's. "

"We put three of the original milled C39's on the line when they first came out and they have all been pulled because the barrels keyhole."

"I know some folks REALLY think that "their" brand of lubes and cleaners are the best but I can tell you that, in OUR experience, they have all worked about the same."

"I can tell you from our experience that an AK will outlast an AR on our range. We use what I feel are high quality bolts (Daniel Defense and LMT) and they have about an 8-month life span. The bolts will start skipping over rounds and fail to feed when they are close to the end. We still get bolts that will shear lugs and run (not that we purposely do that) but at the end of the shift when weapons get inspected, they will see missing lugs and pull the weapon from the line. "

*EDIT* Forgot to add this gem, so much for another bullshit myth:
Q: " Ron, do you guys have any piston AR's in your stable?"

A: "We had plenty of them and EVERY single one of them has had an issue. Pistons broke, barrels keyholed, cam pins sheared and springs snapped. "

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发表于 2015-5-30 22:20 | 只看该作者
这里面对普通AR评价好像不错啊,都能打到bolt正常寿命用完坏掉。要知道AR里面,零件是可互换的,扔个bolt进去就又能跑了,PSA打折的时候一个好像才30左右。。。不需要hand fitting就可以自由互换零件,是很好的一个特性。AK想换bolt,得重新搞headspace,手工匹配零件尺寸。


外置活塞AR,看起来差了点。。。这东西的工作原理决定了使用的高磨损,carrier tilt磨机匣,开锁没有内活塞助推导致bolt和cam pin也拉扯的更厉害,等等,而且运动的可磨损零件更多,零件不标准不通用,可维护性差多了

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发表于 2015-5-30 22:48 | 只看该作者
FJC 发表于 2015-5-30 22:20
这里面对普通AR评价好像不错啊,都能打到bolt正常寿命用完坏掉。要知道AR里面,零件是现场可互换的,扔个bo ...

最近说活塞AR就是好的,好像越来越少了
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地板
发表于 2015-5-31 05:59 来自手机 | 只看该作者
time to 吹向全面ak化的号角。 握着mag打咱就也freefloat啦!
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发表于 2015-5-31 07:00 来自手机 | 只看该作者
FJC 发表于 2015-5-30 22:20
这里面对普通AR评价好像不错啊,都能打到bolt正常寿命用完坏掉。要知道AR里面,零件是现场可互换的,扔个bo ...

AK的headspace不对,他们也是换个bolt,能挡住no-go就可以了。
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发表于 2015-5-31 07:04 来自手机 | 只看该作者
那个贴很有意思。他们遇到过弹药问题,2只M249,一支M16炸膛。结果M16彻底炸毁,两支AK的盖子飞了,检查过枪没有
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 楼主| 发表于 2015-5-31 08:54 来自手机 | 只看该作者
One warsor 10 lasted 100k, barrel not keyholing yet,  lost headspace.
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发表于 2015-5-31 09:01 来自手机 | 只看该作者
gunner 发表于 2015-5-31 08:54
One warsor 10 lasted 100k, barrel not keyholing yet,  lost headspace....

土豪,囤一批吧
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发表于 2015-5-31 09:08 来自手机 | 只看该作者
graycat2006 发表于 2015-5-31 07:04
那个贴很有意思。他们遇到过弹药问题,2只M249,一支M16炸膛。结果M16彻底炸毁,两支AK的盖子飞了,检查过枪没有...

说起来他们测没测vz58?也是milled,可以更好的比较哪个因素更可靠
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发表于 2015-5-31 09:30 来自手机 | 只看该作者
本打算打手里的WSAR10处理掉,看了这个还是留下吧
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发表于 2015-5-31 10:58 | 只看该作者
webhero 发表于 2015-5-31 13:08
说起来他们测没测vz58?也是milled,可以更好的比较哪个因素更可靠

vz58跟ak没关系
When You're Up To Your Nose In Shit, Keep Your Mouth Shut. -Jack Beauregard
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 楼主| 发表于 2015-5-31 12:27 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 gunner 于 2015-5-31 12:30 编辑

大家注意一下,这个是寿命测试,和可靠性还不完全一样。可靠性ak也是没说的应该。
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发表于 2015-6-1 17:55 | 只看该作者
graycat2006 发表于 2015-5-31 09:30
本打算打手里的WSAR10处理掉,看了这个还是留下吧

+1
面朝靶道,噼里啪啦
喜蛙
从明天起,做一个幸福的人
复装、速射,拼装AR
从明天起,关心枪支和弹药
我有一个靶场,面朝大山,噼里啪啦
从明天起,和每一个亲友通信
告诉他们我的幸福
那幸福的闪电告诉我的
我将告诉每一个人
给每一条AK每一把AR取一个温暖的名字
陌生人,我也为你祝福
愿你有一个灿烂的枪柜
愿你收尽天下好枪
愿你坐拥天下好弹
我只愿面朝靶道,噼里啪啦
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