求推荐防熊枪。。。

FJC

xushihuai 发表于 2014-2-26 18:18
这枪不用打很多，把10米靶练好能打进人形靶就够了
极端紧张的情况下也不可能给你仔细瞄准的时间
PS 如果 ...

能把454控制好的人应该极少吧，这玩意估计也就指着一发命中了，2.5寸的瞄准基线会不会太短。。。

xushihuai

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 21:22
能把454控制好的人应该极少吧，这玩意估计也就指着一发命中了，2.5寸的瞄准基线会不会太短。。。 ...

你挎着一支7寸长的大枪打猎是极其不方便的
像我说的，如果熊在我10米以外，我第一反应肯定是去拿步枪
只有我手里正好没枪（比如在剥皮）的时候面前突然冲出来一头熊的时候
我才会掏出大左轮
对着躯干打10米之内一般人还是能打中的
后座没有想象的那么恐怖其实

FJC

xushihuai 发表于 2014-2-26 18:28
你挎着一支7寸长的大枪打猎是极其不方便的
像我说的，如果熊在我10米以外，我第一反应肯定是去拿步枪
只 ...

再问一下。。那如果换成45 colt是不是就跟普通45 acp打起来效果一样了，考虑到枪重量是不是后座比45 ACP还小？还是差不多？

xushihuai

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 21:31
再问一下。。那如果换成45 colt是不是就跟普通45 acp打起来效果一样了，考虑到枪重量是不是后座比45 ACP ...

不清楚，但是也应该差不了多少
你就入了吧，不会后悔的，哈哈

akula

真要防熊还要便携的，那就入乳鸽的超级红鹰 Alaskan吧
44Mag或者454Casull

andrews

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 13:52
你确定不是自己装死让别人跑？。。。

也行。还要记得往自己身上涂点熊最讨厌的气味，比方说蜂蜜味道什么的……

andrews

kk58 发表于 2014-2-26 14:11
啊哟，谁敢和你去靶场、打猎？

你觉得真打算这么干的人会说出来不……

FJC

xushihuai 发表于 2014-2-26 18:10
携弹量我觉得不是主要的，因为手枪自卫的情形肯定是近距离遭遇，6发子弹绝对够用了
反而半自动的玩意卡壳 ...

研究了一下，据说454 casull这样的大威力左轮也容易出现"jump crimp"卡弹，就是因为后座力太大，弹仓里的子弹头容易被后座力向外拔而造成全弹变长，如果长到一定程度就会全枪卡死，拆都拆不开。网上有人说打熊打到一半卡壳的经历。这个原理就跟搞复装的impact bullet puller一样，打一枪相当于拿小锤子砸一下。。。要想不卡，必须寄希望于非首发的5发子弹都有完美的，高度可靠的crimping，第一发要能禁得住砸一次，第二发要能禁得住砸两次，等等。。。要把6发全打出去，这个要求恐怕不比半自动可靠操作要低

flyingspur

357/10mm那点威力不值一提。

就是44/454，在short barrel shotgun面前也是是浮云，赶紧建个NFA Trust，然后来个这个

xushihuai

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 23:32
研究了一下，据说454 casull这样的大威力左轮也容易出现"jump crimp"卡壳，就是因为后座力太大，弹仓里的 ...

那你上沙漠之鹰吧

土豪金的

Cyberx1911

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 18:22
能把454控制好的人应该极少吧，这玩意估计也就指着一发命中了，2.5寸的瞄准基线会不会太短。。。 ...

这儿推荐的都是纸上谈兵。听听行家怎么说：

I am a sucessful Alaskan brown bear hunter. Lived on Kodiak Island for many years - home to the biggest ones. Been hunting in Alaskan grizzly country since 1982.

With a brown bear the slug needs to get past the hair, hide, fat + muscle layers so it can break bones and damage vital organs. From time to time on Kodiak it's not unusual to hear about guys finding 44mag slugs in a bear that have healed over. But these are big trophy bears we are talking about.

'Normally' any bear will hit the ground running at the first scent or sight of a human. All you see is it's big ol' butt. It's the old, sick, thin bears with the rib cage showing - a hungry bear that is down on it's luck that will be a problem. (unless you are unlucky to get between a mom in prime condition and her cubs). On a sick or injured bear you won't have the big fat layer or muscle.

The problem with killing a bear - even if you totally obliterate the heart - the muscles still have enough oxygen to operate for almost a full minute! It can run almost a 1/4 mile at you, or, beat on you the whole time. This is why it is so important to choose a caliber than can break bones and prevent it from moving much.

When shooting a bear - you do not fire and then pause to see what the shot did. You keep on shooting until the thing stops moving.

Most guys like you and I - we can put the first round from a big pistol like a 454 or 500 S&W in the black at 50yds - but the recoil and pain of shooting is going to make the next 4 or 5 rounds fly wild. This is why most Alaskans go with the 480 Ruger........ it doesn't have the power of the 454 or 500, but, it is 2.5x more powerful than a 44mag - and people can control it. With a 480 Ruger or equal powered pistol you can put all 6 rounds in the black. And it will probably take all six or more to disable a bear so it cannot hurt you any more.

357Mag is perfect for black bear. Lots of folks here use them and have gotten one shot clean kills on black bears. In the last 10 years in Alaska - the majority of bear encounters where people were mauled or killed - most have been from black bears.

Upside to having a 357 - they make speed loaders for nearly all the models. You can get off a quick 6rds, do a fast reload, and get off another 6 or more. All the big revolvers - 460, 480, 500, 454 - they don't make them. With practice you can count on a 357mag to offer protection - but - you certainly do not want to act like you are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. And it needs to have at least a 6" barrel - anything smaller and you dramatically kill the pistols power.

Although a 44 is better - if you are going to into a big magnum revolver - you might as well go all the way. Although Ruger discontinued the 480 a few years ago - lots and lots of Alaskans have sold their hard to handle 500, 454 and 460's for the more managable 480 Ruger. Used - they sell for $750+ here now.

You have plenty of time between now and hunting season. Try to get some trigger time on these big revolvers before making a decision. And keep in mind - you will have to drop some serious $$ on a good, high quality holster. You buy a 'one size fits none' Uncle Mikes - good chance that pistol it going to be left back at camp or in your truck when you need it. A good Galco Kodiak holster, or, one made by Galco, Bianchi, DeSantis etc goes a long way to carry a big revolver comfortably and assuring it is where it should be when you need it.

Hope this helps

FJC

xushihuai 发表于 2014-2-26 15:48

别说别的，还就是你引用的这个图片里，他碰巧刚把熊打倒，他的super blackhawk alaskan 454 casull就卡死了，直到他老婆带着步枪赶来才把熊打死。如果卡壳时机差一发，这个人就挂了。。

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/survival/animal-attacks/2009/08/charging-grizzly-killed-alaska?photo=2

Brush instinctively back-pedaled to avoid the charge, drawing the Ruger from its holster. “I fired from the hip as he closed the distance,” Brush recalls. “I know I missed the first shot, but I clearly hit him after that. I believe I fired four or five shots. ”

Brush finally fell on his back on the edge of the road. Miraculously, the bear collapsed a mere five feet from his boot soles, leaving claw marks in the road where Brush had—only seconds before—been standing. The bear was moaning, his huge head still moving, as Brush aimed the Ruger to fire a finishing shot. “By then my gun had jammed,” Greg says. “I frantically called my wife on my cell phone and told her to bring a rifle. When she arrived I finished the bear.”

大左轮很厉害，但是寄希望于“不卡壳”是很危险的。不过至少在jam之前把熊放倒了。他如果用的是357或者10mm，现在又有没有希望生还呢。。。

akula

这样说来，折中一下，我觉得44mag的轮子挺好

FJC

akula 发表于 2014-2-26 22:54
这样说来，折中一下，我觉得44mag的轮子挺好

44mag用2.5寸短管威力就不行了，性能和10mm比没有优势。要想打上面那头熊，用44mag得有6-7寸管才能达到同样威力，这样携带重量就上去了，比半个步枪还重

annieli

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 22:59
44mag用2.5寸短管威力就不行了，性能和10mm比没有优势。要想打上面那头熊，用44mag得有6-7寸管才能达到同 ...

早就指出明路了，短管shotgun就是最佳候选。。。其实我们这里基本看不见grizzly, 357 mag就很充足啦。。。

FJC

annieli 发表于 2014-2-26 23:05
早就指出明路了，短管shotgun就是最佳候选。。。其实我们这里基本看不见grizzly, 357 mag就很充足啦。。 ...

你的GP100是4.2寸管？查了一下，空枪好像4.2"是40oz，6"是45oz。ruger好像没有类似的44 magnum型号。

如果跳SW，好像这个5寸管44 mag重量也差不多，空枪44.3oz。。威力可以到1000FPE (1350J)，也许在这够用了。。

http://www.smith-wesson.com/weba ... tDisplayErrorView_Y

Whistler

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 13:11
看了一下好像357威力接近10mm

看来也可以考虑，不打猎领导还能防狼用。。。

.375 好像对付黑熊都不太够。10mm相当于0.41mag, 对付黑熊凑和。

据说.44对付棕熊有点吃力， 要500mag 的。

annieli

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 23:24
你的GP100是4.2寸管？查了一下，空枪好像4.2"是40oz，6"是45oz。ruger好像没有类似的44 magnum型号。

如 ...

我觉得吧，费这么大周章，还不如直接拿把半自动308去打猎得啦。。。还是就想趁机入新货啊

touaregs

没人想到 AK pistol 吗？ 7.62*39的子弹在陆地上除了人以外会有敌手吗？而且 Ak dosent jam。不过可能就作为side weapon的话太重了点。

annieli

FJC 发表于 2014-2-26 23:24
你的GP100是4.2寸管？查了一下，空枪好像4.2"是40oz，6"是45oz。ruger好像没有类似的44 magnum型号。

如 ...

我的是6寸的，我带着觉得正好。其实CZ 75B也没比这个轻多少。。。如果都带满子弹，估计都差不多了。