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[CCW] 随身枪应该上膛无保险,拔出来就能打

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发表于 2014-7-10 13:39 | 只看该作者 回帖奖励 |倒序浏览 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 QuiMi 于 2014-7-10 15:51 编辑

有人说,"训练是唯一的办法。如果携带1911式的手枪, 正确的握法是拇指一直压在保险上。 平时训练养成举枪关保险, 收枪上保险的习惯, 就不会忘了保险。"


事实上,不论你怎样训练,你都不可能保证在生死一瞬间不出错而忘记一个动作导致枪打不响。


这篇文章说到了点子上:

The Case Against Mechanical Safeties
By Jarrod Needs

Many people new to defensive shooting give me the “Are you crazy?” look when I say that one of my strongest recommendations for a defensive pistol is that it have no mechanical safety. One of these people was my wife when I bought a new M&P last year. At the local gun shop, as the guy behind the counter walked to the back to get me one, I stopped him and said “No safeties.” My wife looked at me as if I were insane. I had to explain to her not only why I did not want a mechanical safety on my defensive firearm but also why it’s ok to have any gun without a safety in a home with children.

How Safe Are “Safeties”?


Here’s why I don’t even like these devices being called “safeties.” I started shooting at a very young age and took my hunter’s safety course when I was eight years old. In that course we were taught that mechanical safeties are by definition “mechanical devices prone to failure.” We went on to learn the basic rules of firearms safety and that you should not rely on a mechanical safety. This has stuck with me throughout my years of shooting and even more so now that I am an instructor.


Many people have the misconception that these mechanical devices automatically make a gun “safe” and therefore you can let your guard down about the firearms safety rules once they are engaged. This leads to complacency and dangerous behavior, and goes even further when people question firearms not having these mechanical devices when children are around. The thought that this mechanical lever or button is going to prevent a child from firing a gun if they gain access to it is far from reality. But due to the name of these devices, uninformed people assume they instantly make a gun “safe.”


Due to these misconceptions, I believe that calling mechanical safeties a “safety” actually leads to firearms being more dangerous — the idea that once you “turn the safety on” you can ignore the standard rules of firearms handling. I have seen people get upset about being reprimanded for pointing a gun at someone, with the reasoning, “Well, the safety was on.” Some people have even been upset that anyone would question them about safety. Following the rules of safe gun handling does not end because you utilize a mechanical safety. Instead, if you choose to own or carry a firearm that requires the use of a mechanical safety, such as a single-action semi-automatic or double/single one in single-action mode, you should make an even greater effort to follow the basic safety rules of gun handling due to these firearms having more likelihood of an accidental discharge if you forget to engage the mechanical safety.


There are many versions of the basic safety rules. To me, these two are the most fundamental:


1.        ALWAYS KEEP THE GUN POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION. This is rule #1 for a reason. A safe direction means a direction in which, if the gun were to go off, it would likely not cause injury or damage. If you forget every other rule in the book and follow this one, even if the gun goes off, it will not hurt or kill anyone.


2.        ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.  Ready to fire means you are ready for the bullet to leave the gun. Even if the gun is pointed at the target, you do not place your finger on the trigger until you are ready for the bullet to come out of the muzzle.


Utilizing these two safety rules as the foundation for everything you do with firearms will keep you and others around you much safer than learning to use a mechanical safety.


Mechanical Safeties on Modern Firearms



There are very few types of firearms that actually require a mechanical safety to be carried safely. Single-action semi-automatics are really the only action type that requires a mechanical safety when carried. This is due to their being carried with the hammer back, creating a very short and light trigger press that would be dangerous without the mechanical safety.


When a pistol is in double-action mode, such as a double/single semi-automatic when the hammer is down or a double-action revolver with the hammer down, it is generally accepted that the firearm is safe to carry. The double-action trigger requires a longer and heavier press to fire. This means the pistol will not fire if the trigger is lightly touched or bumped. It would take a purposeful motion to fire the gun. Many double/single semi-automatics now come with no mechanical safety, and instead have a decocker that will safely place the pistol back in double-action mode.


This is made even safer with double-action-only, where the hammer is not exposed to be cocked. Both revolvers and semi-automatics come in this style, where every shot is a consistent, longer, and heavier trigger pull without needing to manually change the pistol back from single to double action.


Striker-fired pistols have become increasingly more popular for personal defense in the civilian, law enforcement, and military markets. They utilize actions that require the trigger to be pressed for a round to be fired, and have lighter triggers than double action.


Again I must stress that the two main safety rules apply regardless of the action type. Having a striker-fired pistol or a pistol in double-action mode does not mean you can violate those rules any more than using a mechanical safety does.


Why I Don’t Have Safeties on My Defensive Pistol



I teach my defensive pistol students that if they ever need to utilize lethal force, they will most likely be surprised by the attack. After all, if you are expecting to need to use deadly force, you will avoid the confrontation if at all possible rather than preparing for it. This means you will need to react quickly under severe mental and physical stress. Your body will react in many ways, including the loss of fine motor skills. Operating a mechanical safety is a fine motor skill that will be difficult even with training under this kind of stress.


Without the pressure of someone attacking, I see people fumble the operation of a mechanical safety during training. This delay could mean the difference between your attacker being on top of you or not. It is now an accepted fact that the average person can cover a distance of approximately 21 feet in the time it takes a trained individual to draw and fire their defensive handgun (approximately 1.5 seconds).


A paper by Dr. Martin J. Tovee of Newcastle University states that it takes .3 to .5 seconds to react to a stimulus. This means that when you begin to react to there being a threat, up to .5 seconds could have already passed. Imagine that this stimulus is someone coming at you with a knife and you have enough time to draw and fire to stop the threat. Now imagine as you press the trigger, the gun will not fire. This is a new stimulus your brain must interpret under an extreme amount of stress. To react to this stimulus will take you another .3 to .5 seconds under ideal conditions. Combine this with the original reaction time and .6 to 1 second of your time has been merely interpreting and reacting to stimuli rather than defending yourself.


I recently watched a video of an armed citizen who attempted to engage a robber at a store in Milwaukee. The armed citizen did not disengage the safety, and it took nearly three seconds for him to react to the mechanical safety being engaged, disengage the mechanical safety, and make a second attempt at engaging the robber.


When we discuss selecting a defensive pistol, functional reliability is the #1 factor. In the middle of a defensive encounter, we need the gun to fire when the trigger is pressed. This is important enough for a defensive firearm that we test it not only with our practice ammunition but also with expensive defensive ammunition. If we put this much effort into making sure our firearm will function when we need it to, why would we choose to have a device that could possibly cause the firearm to not fire when we need it to?


Conclusions



Although mechanical safeties are intended to prevent accidents and injury, they can actually lead to lapses in normal safety procedures and result in injury. Combine this with the fact that in a defensive encounter, safeties could cause a delay in being able to protect ourselves or our loved ones.


Many people say that they train to work their safety. Only being in a defensive encounter would let us know if that training worked. My suggestion is to utilize that time practicing the two main rules of safe gun handling and get a defensive firearm that does not require the extra steps.


http://www.personaldefensenetwor ... echanical-safeties/




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发表于 2014-7-10 14:51 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 kisskaren 于 2014-7-12 14:40 编辑

虽然我习惯没有拇指保险的手枪,但我不同意你的观点。

个人喜好和选择,个人承担后果和风险,不需要你一概而论。

有些grand master级别的,日常都cocked&locked carry。
就像我自己打不好DA,所以自己知趣买SFA和Lem的枪。
但我不会跟别人说,别买DA/SA啊因为你无论平时怎么训练紧张时刻都会打不到人的。
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发表于 2014-7-10 15:06 | 只看该作者
不光是CCWer, 很多警察也携带1911 pattern的手枪。

因为训练不足可以出各种问题, 不光是忘了保险, 比如弹匣不seat到位, 或者手按到了空挂, 空枪了也不知道, 等等。 按照你的说法,保险就是累赘的话, 拎long gun巡逻的是不是也应该为了对付随时的突袭而不应该上保险?

Travis Haley有一个讲AK保险的视频, 我觉得是个很好的例子。 "Get your ass out to the range and train with the safety"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGnz38K9ik&feature=kp

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发表于 2014-7-10 15:52 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 maxsterling 于 2014-7-10 16:00 编辑

个人觉得,训练+良好的习惯 更重要。
因为子弹上了膛的枪,又无保险的话,真的是很难说,扳机足够脆,跌打滚爬一下都可能走火。就算枪是别在PG后面打不着大腿,但是走个火还是很危险很被动的。
觉得either以色列式样的拔枪(可以练单手蹭裤带上膛)or有保险的枪。
举个养成良好的习惯,比如停车拉手闸或踩脚闸。刚这么做时很不适应,LD甚至没放手闸开了半英里,生气地迁怒于我,说是我让她用手闸了。不过这种停车闸用习惯了真的是很好用,尤其是在坡上停车,齿轮不会别那么很,也更安全。在经历了纠结的一两周后,LG终於也习惯用停车闸了,一直到现在。
现在的习惯是停车后:踩煞车,拉手闸,换P档,熄火。中间两个是否可以互换有争议。
俺开的是小皮卡,是踩脚闸。习惯成自然,拔枪开保险也一样,习惯了少做这个动作反而觉得别扭、不对劲。
所以either拔枪拉套筒,or拔枪开保险,or拔(上膛无保险的)枪就瞄准,随便哪一种,train youself with the safest and most comfortable way THAT YOU FEEL.   AND STICK TO THAT.
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发表于 2014-7-10 16:39 来自手机 | 只看该作者
maxsterling 发表于 2014-7-10 15:52
个人觉得,训练+良好的习惯 更重要。
因为子弹上了膛的枪,又无保险的话,真的是很难说,扳机足够脆,跌打 ...

嘿嘿嘿嘿。。。。。

能说俺们设计transmission P档那个stop的时候就假设没人用手刹么。。。。
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发表于 2014-7-10 16:53 | 只看该作者
嘿嘿,这就是俺为啥一开始就坚定的用XD/XDM系列的原因,手不在枪上时,基本绝对不会走火,手握在枪上时,需要打响时总能打响,至于要不要打响自己负责。
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发表于 2014-7-10 17:37 | 只看该作者
waterapple 发表于 2014-7-10 19:39
嘿嘿嘿嘿。。。。。

能说俺们设计transmission P档那个stop的时候就假设没人用手刹么。。。。 ...

这个需要展开说说的,P挡的parking pawl
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发表于 2014-7-10 17:45 | 只看该作者
bigbore 发表于 2014-7-10 17:37
这个需要展开说说的,P挡的parking pawl

不是俺管的内容,不过在garage培训拆transmission的时候,讲课的家伙说设计这玩意的时候就假设了所有人不用手刹锁住车...你要感兴趣那东西用了158钢还是9310那我就真不知道了....嘿嘿
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 楼主| 发表于 2014-7-10 18:10 | 只看该作者
SemperFortis 发表于 2014-7-10 17:06
不光是CCWer, 很多警察也携带1911 pattern的手枪。

因为训练不足可以出各种问题, 不光是忘了保险, 比如弹 ...


Of course every gun owner needs training.  But no training will prepare you for the moment you face life-and-death.  

The good training should be on safe handling of loaded guns and carry the gun that is loaded with safety off.
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发表于 2014-7-10 18:14 | 只看该作者
bigbore 发表于 2014-7-10 17:37
这个需要展开说说的,P挡的parking pawl

现在很多人停车不拉手刹。。。没开过手动档留下来的臭习惯。。。特别是停在很大坡度的地方也不空档拉了手刹之后再挂P。。。很多人本来也就没机械常识。。走人的时候P挂出来“哐当”一声巨响也习以为常。。
P的那个卡尺基本没什么强度。。几次就把变速箱搞完蛋了。。。。

当然枪跟车其实都差不多。。。臭习惯 习以为常  掉以轻心  就是死人出事的时候。
哦 呵呵 这样啊
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 楼主| 发表于 2014-7-10 18:16 | 只看该作者
jhe123 发表于 2014-7-10 18:53
嘿嘿,这就是俺为啥一开始就坚定的用XD/XDM系列的原因,手不在枪上时,基本绝对不会走火,手握在枪上时,需 ...

深有同感。XD 的握把保险几乎是彻底地解决了这个问题。
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发表于 2014-7-10 18:56 | 只看该作者
waterapple 发表于 2014-7-10 16:39
嘿嘿嘿嘿。。。。。

能说俺们设计transmission P档那个stop的时候就假设没人用手刹么。。。。 ...

俺有两次忘了上P档就熄火,下次要开车的时候怎么也打不着火,最后把AAA请来了,折腾半天才发现我的档位还在D上。。。
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发表于 2014-7-10 19:18 | 只看该作者
7.62 发表于 2014-7-10 18:56
俺有两次忘了上P档就熄火,下次要开车的时候怎么也打不着火,最后把AAA请来了,折腾半天才发现我的档位还 ...

哈哈,好像一般只有女司机才干这事儿
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发表于 2014-7-10 19:31 | 只看该作者
jhe123 发表于 2014-7-10 19:18
哈哈,好像一般只有女司机才干这事儿

一般男女都不会干吧。AAA的小哥说他也是头一遭遇到有这样的事
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发表于 2014-7-10 19:55 | 只看该作者
SuperMike 发表于 2014-7-10 18:14
现在很多人停车不拉手刹。。。没开过手动档留下来的臭习惯。。。特别是停在很大坡度的地方也不空档拉了手 ...
自动挡停车是靠输出轴上单独的机构锁定,本身有足够的强度,而且就算爆了也不会伤变速箱的其它功能,这个“几次就把变速箱搞完蛋了“是没有根据的

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission11.htm
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发表于 2014-7-10 20:23 | 只看该作者
FJC 发表于 2014-7-10 22:55
自动挡停车是靠输出轴上单独的机构锁定,本身有足够的强度,而且就算爆了也不会伤变速箱的其它功能,这个“ ...

所以刚才说要展开说说嘛
工程师们设计才能还是很高的,要默认用户都是傻瓜的前提下设计出即安全又易用的产品。
自动变速器上的档位锁定也是动过很多脑筋的,比如R-N-D没有锁定反过来D-N就再进不了R,还有车子还在行驶变速挡推到P怎么办...
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发表于 2014-7-10 20:41 | 只看该作者
7.62 发表于 2014-7-10 18:56
俺有两次忘了上P档就熄火,下次要开车的时候怎么也打不着火,最后把AAA请来了,折腾半天才发现我的档位还 ...

你这是什么车?我车在D档熄火钥匙拔不出来,也就下不了车。。。
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发表于 2014-7-10 20:57 | 只看该作者
aerostar 发表于 2014-7-10 20:41
你这是什么车?我车在D档熄火钥匙拔不出来,也就下不了车。。。

subaru。这点我也很奇怪,以前的老别克和你的一样,D档熄火拔不出钥匙
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发表于 2014-7-10 20:59 | 只看该作者
bigbore 发表于 2014-7-10 20:23
所以刚才说要展开说说嘛
工程师们设计才能还是很高的,要默认用户都是傻瓜的前提下设计出即安全又易用 ...

听说过某人的Ford在刹车失灵的时候用手刹+行驶中D档换P档化险为夷的
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发表于 2014-7-10 21:31 | 只看该作者
QuiMi 发表于 2014-7-10 18:10
Of course every gun owner needs training.  But no training will prepare you for the moment you fa ...

Speaking of life and death, three weeks ago I had to CPR someone back to life.

First time in my life seeing a dying man in front of me, and I did exactly how I was trained for - CAB (circulation, airway , breathing), airway is clear, no pulse, no breathing,  and then non stop compression. After 15 minutes of compression and two rounds of epinephrine he came back to life.

I was trained for this for a decade. I knew exactly what to do in this situation, and I did exactly what the textbook said.

I think I would just say, practice makes perfect.

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