枪友会

 找回密码
 立即注册
搜索
热搜: 入门 指南 攻略
12
返回列表 发新帖
楼主: CiTY_HuNTeR

一点关于控枪的讨论

  [复制链接]

203

主题

2478

帖子

3万

积分

元老枪友

强力帕斯卡

Rank: 4

积分
34862

开坛元勋NRA终身会员三枪客携枪执照

21#
发表于 2018-2-25 13:09 | 只看该作者
kuehle 发表于 2018-2-25 12:25
也不是所有人都合适有枪,我一般不会劝朋友买枪,除非他自己觉得有这个需求
...

只要不反对别人有枪,不反对允许公民持枪的法律,就足够好了,他们自己不买枪无所谓吧。反正枪起作用主要靠其威慑力。
强力帕斯卡
回复

使用道具 举报

2

主题

1932

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15226
22#
发表于 2018-2-25 14:46 | 只看该作者
回复

使用道具 举报

282

主题

1万

帖子

6万

积分

版主

蝙蝠

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

积分
65691

开坛元勋NRA终身会员认证教员携枪执照

23#
发表于 2018-2-25 15:33 | 只看该作者
heck 你们知道每年flu要干掉多少人吗?
回复

使用道具 举报

11

主题

261

帖子

3963

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3963
24#
发表于 2018-2-25 16:20 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 JasonXieyf 于 2018-2-25 16:23 编辑

我还是不懂想搞Assault Weapon Ban的人具体想干什么

加州之前就禁了Assault Weapon,结果还是有Bullet Button。禁了Bullet Button,还有Maglock。就算以后半自动全禁了,还有“半半自动”的LR223(英国一种合法的AR15)。就算加拿大那样直接规定AR15和AK全都进限制级,不还有一大票漏网之鱼么(Vz58/81杠 等)???所谓的”增加犯罪成本“根本就是扯淡。十分钟左右的改装,罪犯会在乎么?

背景调查这个我倒是不反对

至于为什么需要半自动长枪。。。让一个平时不打枪的人,给他一把MPX,一把P226,同样十米看哪个打得准就知道了我个人认为家防最好的选择就是9mm SBR
回复

使用道具 举报

48

主题

640

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
11225
25#
发表于 2018-2-25 17:16 | 只看该作者
JasonXieyf 发表于 2018-2-25 16:20
我还是不懂想搞Assault Weapon Ban的人具体想干什么

加州之前就禁了Assault Weapon,结果还是有Bullet But ...

毒品泛滥死的人多了去了,左派对毒品和毒贩子的态度如何?
回复

使用道具 举报

1172

主题

2万

帖子

13万

积分

国宝枪友

少林寺驻武当山办事处大神父上校政委王喇嘛

Rank: 5Rank: 5

积分
132169

开坛元勋NRA终身会员三枪客认证教员携枪执照

26#
 楼主| 发表于 2018-2-25 17:49 | 只看该作者
JasonXieyf 发表于 2018-2-25 19:20
我还是不懂想搞Assault Weapon Ban的人具体想干什么

加州之前就禁了Assault Weapon,结果还是有Bullet But ...

加州最近才说,涉枪犯罪不再加重量刑
When You're Up To Your Nose In Shit, Keep Your Mouth Shut. -Jack Beauregard
回复

使用道具 举报

6

主题

1069

帖子

8255

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
8255
27#
发表于 2018-2-25 18:22 | 只看该作者
回复

使用道具 举报

11

主题

261

帖子

3963

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3963
28#
发表于 2018-2-25 18:25 | 只看该作者
CiTY_HuNTeR 发表于 2018-2-25 17:49
加州最近才说,涉枪犯罪不再加重量刑

我并不是想说加州立法者怎么样。。。我的意思是 有人再提Assault Weapon Ban就拿加州做例子就好了。。。。。。。。
回复

使用道具 举报

40

主题

1311

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
16892
29#
发表于 2018-2-25 20:18 | 只看该作者
关东炮手 发表于 2018-2-25 09:42
这件事几十年来是我最不理解的!你说就大多数华人这小身板面对入室抢匪(不用枪、刀)就算男的都难以应付 ...

怕吵架被老公毙了?……有的老婆极力反对,说枪是凶器,放家里不吉利,其实是整天在家作威作福,担心老公有枪了就不服管了。
枪者, 民之大事, 死生之器,存亡之技,利害不可不察也;夫学枪者, 当敬而近之,慎而习之。
回复

使用道具 举报

40

主题

1311

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
16892
30#
发表于 2018-2-25 20:19 | 只看该作者
wind 发表于 2018-2-25 13:02
华人思维还是没跟上。前段时间去朋友家吃饭,也是好些教授在场。听说我买枪了,
无一例外都有点surprised, ...

华人圈,多数人对枪还是敬而远之。除非都是各自有枪的,否则一般不提这个话题。
枪者, 民之大事, 死生之器,存亡之技,利害不可不察也;夫学枪者, 当敬而近之,慎而习之。
回复

使用道具 举报

282

主题

1万

帖子

6万

积分

版主

蝙蝠

Rank: 7Rank: 7Rank: 7

积分
65691

开坛元勋NRA终身会员认证教员携枪执照

31#
发表于 2018-2-25 20:32 | 只看该作者
Second Amendment:

Implicit in the debate between Federalists and Anti-Federalists were two shared assumptions. First, that the proposed new Constitution gave the federal government almost total legal authority over the army and militia. Second, that the federal government should not have any authority at all to disarm the citizenry. They disagreed only about whether an armed populace could adequately deter federal oppression.

The Second Amendment conceded nothing to the Anti-Federalists’ desire to sharply curtail the military power of the federal government, which would have required substantial changes in the original Constitution. Yet the Amendment was easily accepted because of widespread agreement that the federal government should not have the power to infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms, any more than it should have the power to abridge the freedom of speech or prohibit the free exercise of religion.


Until recently, the judiciary treated the Second Amendment almost as a dead letter. In District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), however, the Supreme Court invalidated a federal law that forbade nearly all civilians from possessing handguns in the nation’s capital. A 5–4 majority ruled that the language and history of the Second Amendment showed that it protects a private right of individuals to have arms for their own defense, not a right of the states to maintain a militia.


Two years later, in McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010), the Court struck down a similar handgun ban at the state level, again by a 5–4 vote. Four Justices relied on judicial precedents under the Fourteenth Amendment’s Due Process Clause. Justice Thomas rejected those precedents in favor of reliance on the Privileges or Immunities Clause, but all five members of the majority concluded that the Fourteenth Amendment protects against state infringement of the same individual right that is protected from federal infringement by the Second Amendment.


精神病诊断极其主观,有没有人立法规范化?▪ Sept. 23, 2016: A “peer counselor” reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntary committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment.
▪ Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite “fresh cuts” on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote “hate signs” on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms.
两次医疗人员都判断这个人不需要强制收容治疗。Unfortunately, 中学生里面 这种 cut,talking hate 的人挺多的。标准是判断他是否有自伤和他伤的可能。但是精神科的判断就是主观判断。两个医生得出不同结论在精神科里是极其正常的事情。这个判断的 sensitivity 和 specificity 都不到 50%。更何况精神病人的状态是会变的。心理疾病和感冒发烧癌症不一样的,没有客观指标可言,都是主观判断,主要是太复杂,因素太多。一个抑郁病人往往在你以为他正在好转的时候突然恶化,崔不及防。精神病患不可能完全治愈。精神疾病有大脑器质生理化学方面的因素,也有行为习惯,思维方式,以及应激环境的因素。即使acute 症状被缓解控制,病人的神经类型是不会突然改变的。所以即使“治愈”,在一定条件下还是会复发。

Many so called “studies” have been performed and many analyses of statistical data have been undertaken regarding this issue. Studies simply involving shooting deaths are irrelevant since the goal of law enforcement is to stop a threat during a deadly force encounter as quickly as possible. Whether or not death occurs is of no consequence as long as the threat of death or serious injury to law enforcement personnel and innocent third parties is eliminated. “The concept of immediate incapacitation is the only goal of any law enforcement shooting and is the underlying rationale for decisions regarding weapons, ammunition, calibers and training.”Studies of “stopping power” are irrelevant because no one has ever been able to define how much power, force, or kinetic energy, in and of itself, is required to effectively stop a violent and determined adversary quickly, and even the largest of handgun calibers are not capable of delivering such force. Handgun stopping power is simply a myth. Studies of so?called “one shot stops” being used as a tool to define the effectiveness of one handgun cartridge, as opposed to another, are irrelevant due to the inability to account for psychological influences and due to the lack of reporting specific shot placement.Shots to the Central Nervous System (CNS) at the level of the cervical spine (neck) or above, are the only means to reliably cause immediate incapacitation. In this case, any of the calibers commonly used in law enforcement, regardless of expansion, would suffice for obvious reasons. Other than shots to the CNS, the most reliable means for affecting rapid incapacitation is by placing shots to large vital organs thus causing rapid blood loss. Simply stated, shot placement is the most critical component to achieving either method of incapacitation.Shot placement is paramount and law enforcement officers on average strike an adversary with only 20 – 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. Given the reality that shot placement is paramount (and difficult to achieve given the myriad of variables present in a deadly force encounter) in obtaining effective incapacitation, the caliber used must maximize the likelihood of hitting vital organs. Typical law enforcement shootings result in only one or two solid torso hits on the adversary. This requires that any projectile which strikes the torso has as high a probability as possible of penetrating deeply enough to disrupt a vital organ. The Ballistic Research Facility has conducted a test which compares similar sized Glock pistols in both .40 S&W and 9mm calibers, to determine if more accurate and faster hits are achievable with one versus the other. To date, the majority of the study participants have shot more quickly and more accurately with 9mm caliber Glock pistols. The 9mm provides struggling shooters the best chance of success while improving the speed and accuracy of the most skilled shooters.

94 AWB 前中后十年mass shooting次数
19890117
Stockton schoolyard shooting
6
19911101
University of Iowa shooting
6
19920501
Lindhurst High School shooting
3
19960202
Frontier Middle School shooting
3
19960815
San Diego State University shooting
3
19971201
Heath High School shooting
3
19980324
Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden
5
19980521
Thurston High School shooting
4
19990420
Columbine High School massacre
15
20020116
Appalachian School of Law shooting
3
20050321
Red Lake shootings
10
20061002
West Nickel Mines School shooting
6
20070406
Virginia Tech massacre
33
20080214
Northern Illinois University shooting
6
20100212
University of Alabama in Huntsville shooting
3
20120227
Chardon High School shooting
3
20120402
Oikos University shooting
7
20121214
Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings
28
20130115
3
20130707
Santa Monica shooting
6
20141024
Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting
5

保安警察不管用,GFZ一张纸管用?
反暴政看Bundy standoff
提升年龄到21岁只能理论上防止历史上6次mass shooting。
reciprocity act跟背景调查有关系?


如果按照威力级别限制 那步枪都要被禁 打猎也不要想了。

According to the FBI, in 2014, there were 8,124 total firearm-related homicides in the US, with 5,562 of those attributed to handguns. The FBI breaks down the gun-related homicides in 2010 by weapon: 6,009 involved a handgun, 358 involved a rifle, and 1,939 involved an unspecified type of firearm. In 2005, 75% of the 10,100 homicides committed using firearms in the U.S. were committed using handguns, compared to 4% with rifles, 5% with shotguns, and the rest with unspecified firearms.The rising trend in homicide rates during the 1980s and early 1990s was most pronounced among lower income and especially unemployed males. Youths and Hispanic and African American males in the U.S. were the most represented, with the injury and death rates tripling for black males aged 13 through 17 and doubling for black males aged 18 through 24. The rise in crack cocaine use in cities across the U.S. is often cited as a factor for increased gun violence among youths during this time period.According to FBI statistics, the highest per capita rates of gun-related homicides in 2005 were in Washington, D.C. (35.4/100,000), Puerto Rico (19.6/100,000), Louisiana (9.9/100,000), and Maryland (9.9/100,000). In 2017, according to the Associated Press, Baltimore broke a record for homicides.



吸毒、贫困、失业这些也都没法控制?这些造成自杀是他杀两倍,黑人男性被枪杀是白人男性9倍的原因,我们都束手无策?然后我们把最最最重要的因素归结为占他杀4%不到的一种枪上?

说不需要AR不需要大弹匣的:高速限速最高也就80mph吧,为什么现在车都能开到200mph?你需要500马力的车吗?你需要百公里加速4秒吗?


Flu kills between 12,000 and 59,000 people every year in the U.S.


控枪如此严格地区每年发生3000余起枪击案,死亡超过500人,甚至芝加哥这一个地区带动了全美gun homicide rate。Chicago also has stark murder inequality — meaning that a disproportionate share of the violence affects a handful of neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods, according to The Marshall Project, are patrolled by some of the city’s least experienced cops.为什么就这些社区枪击案高发?他们美国拥枪率最高的社区?AR15拥有率最高的社区?弹匣容量最大的社区?从1966年以来 一共1077人死于mass shooting,其中176名青少年和儿童。如果一年死去的2000多孩子不能引起52年来死去的176个孩子同样的重视,那我只能说这是biased。





https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11292-017-9313-3







评分

参与人数 1子弹 +200 贡献 +200 收起 理由
CiTY_HuNTeR + 200 + 200 赞一个! 都是干货

查看全部评分

回复

使用道具 举报

91

主题

3395

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
19118

三枪客携枪执照

32#
发表于 2018-2-25 20:41 | 只看该作者
JasonXieyf 发表于 2018-2-25 18:25
我并不是想说加州立法者怎么样。。。我的意思是 有人再提Assault Weapon Ban就拿加州做例子就好了。。。 ...

加州这个是给持枪抢劫开绿灯。你以为是保护合法公民持枪啊。哪个正常人拿枪去犯罪?
回复

使用道具 举报

91

主题

3395

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
19118

三枪客携枪执照

33#
发表于 2018-2-25 20:44 | 只看该作者
CiTY_HuNTeR 发表于 2018-2-25 17:49
加州最近才说,涉枪犯罪不再加重量刑

这个不是什么好事。不是保护合法枪民的。持枪抢劫案件要抬头了。还有950块的限额可以用。加州的朋友们要小心了。
回复

使用道具 举报

37

主题

844

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
14331
34#
发表于 2018-2-25 22:17 | 只看该作者
oskarlre 发表于 2018-2-25 06:44
其实这种观点不难反驳。 当我们说枪支死亡的时候,必须整体考虑。 否则就会流于因为特定群体忽视了整体的情 ...

给O编点赞,今天才跟SB干了一仗
回复

使用道具 举报

11

主题

261

帖子

3963

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3963
35#
发表于 2018-2-25 22:32 | 只看该作者
dcx 发表于 2018-2-25 20:41
加州这个是给持枪抢劫开绿灯。你以为是保护合法公民持枪啊。哪个正常人拿枪去犯罪?
...

.....................................你没懂我的逻辑么

我说的和抢劫没关系
回复

使用道具 举报

574

主题

6693

帖子

5万

积分

国宝枪友

Rank: 5Rank: 5

积分
54818

携枪执照

36#
发表于 2018-2-26 07:49 | 只看该作者
semilin 发表于 2018-2-25 20:19
华人圈,多数人对枪还是敬而远之。除非都是各自有枪的,否则一般不提这个话题。 ...

挺可悲的


回复

使用道具 举报

32

主题

639

帖子

6926

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
6926

携枪执照

37#
发表于 2018-2-27 12:34 | 只看该作者
semilin 发表于 2018-2-25 20:19
华人圈,多数人对枪还是敬而远之。除非都是各自有枪的,否则一般不提这个话题。 ...

是这么回事。麻州申请枪证的时候要两个reference,就找了一个同事。上次就是她问起来的
回复

使用道具 举报

40

主题

1311

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
16892
38#
发表于 2018-3-27 12:04 | 只看该作者
oskarlre 发表于 2018-2-25 06:44
其实这种观点不难反驳。 当我们说枪支死亡的时候,必须整体考虑。 否则就会流于因为特定群体忽视了整体的情 ...

谢谢!这个要收藏一下,经常都想找这个数据。
枪者, 民之大事, 死生之器,存亡之技,利害不可不察也;夫学枪者, 当敬而近之,慎而习之。
回复

使用道具 举报

165

主题

1769

帖子

4万

积分

元老枪友

Rank: 4

积分
42482
39#
发表于 2018-3-27 13:49 | 只看该作者
本帖最后由 QuiMi 于 2018-3-27 16:28 编辑

关于“而禁枪过程中如何保证每年300人左右的正当自卫射杀案例? 没有枪这300人是死定的。” :

这其实大大低估了自卫用枪的案例。事实上, 只有2%的持枪自卫事件需要开枪,也就是说每发生一次自卫开枪事件,就有50次持枪自卫一枪都不放。而持枪自卫需要开枪并不一定击毙对方。需要击毙对方在所有开枪自卫事件中的比例不可能超过10%。 就算50%,那么这300要乘以100, 结论是持枪自卫至少拯救了三万人的生命!这还不包括劫匪不知道对方是否有枪知难而退避免案件发生的数量。
回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

触屏版|枪友会

GMT-8, 2024-4-25 17:17 , Processed in 0.051272 second(s), 23 queries .

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表